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	<title>Comments on: The Knowledge Police in Economics</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.thomaspalley.com/?feed=rss2&#038;p=60" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60</link>
	<description>Economics for Democratic and Open Societies</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 19:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: TPMCafe Book Club: Challenging orthodox economics &#171; Identity Unknown</title>
		<link>http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60#comment-48582</link>
		<dc:creator>TPMCafe Book Club: Challenging orthodox economics &#171; Identity Unknown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 11:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60#comment-48582</guid>
		<description>[...] Economic ideas have a profound influence on real world outcomes, which means powerful social interests will seek to control what gets accepted as knowledge. Furthermore, economists are themselves members of society and will therefore be influenced by what currently passes as knowledge. On top of that economists are motivated by their own economic self-interest, which means they are willing to produce knowledge that their customers want. - be they investment banks, business think-tanks, or the IMF and World Bank. Moreover, since cognitive dissonance makes it hard to produce knowledge you do not believe in, that willingness to produce easily merges into belief. Consequently, for all of these reasons, economists can be quite comfortable producing knowledge that supports the economic interests of the rich and powerful (see The Knowledge Police in Economics). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Economic ideas have a profound influence on real world outcomes, which means powerful social interests will seek to control what gets accepted as knowledge. Furthermore, economists are themselves members of society and will therefore be influenced by what currently passes as knowledge. On top of that economists are motivated by their own economic self-interest, which means they are willing to produce knowledge that their customers want. - be they investment banks, business think-tanks, or the IMF and World Bank. Moreover, since cognitive dissonance makes it hard to produce knowledge you do not believe in, that willingness to produce easily merges into belief. Consequently, for all of these reasons, economists can be quite comfortable producing knowledge that supports the economic interests of the rich and powerful (see The Knowledge Police in Economics). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: j</title>
		<link>http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60#comment-27350</link>
		<dc:creator>j</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jan 2007 21:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60#comment-27350</guid>
		<description>Too much intellectualization here is counterproductive IMHO.  "Negentropy" (I had to look that one up!) is only local, a temporary bubble of order in an entropic universe.  We are dumb agents in a "weather system" of incentives that ultimately are ruled by entropic principles.  Production expends energy to increase order, and consumption consumes it--turning products to waste.

It's my belief (I have no special knowledge here) that complexity and simplicity have a fractal distribution in the world--they both exist everywhere you look.   Complexity is contained by larger constraints (technology, the laws of physics, human limitations) which create simplicity that makes the world comprehensible.  This is why it has been my experience that all new theories about human societies inevitably lead you back to what people have been telling their children for thousands of years.  Trudge thru the complexity, and wind up with simplicity again in the end--yet the simplicity is never completely simple.

The dysfunction in our economic and political system is not hard to understand.  Agents milk the system for their own good at the expense of others.  Hardly a new idea.  I believe that an economic and political system should be thought of as a computation system running a search algorithm to find more efficient methods for supporting human life.  It is a distributed, massively parallel system--a "swarm intelligence."  We need to know more about the algorithms used by the agents (evolutionary psychology) and what types of systems interact constructively with those agent's algorithms.  In other words, which social systems bring out the best in us, and create a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts?  To do this we need to take a hard look at human weaknesses, something our flattering, fawning media is loath to do, and experiment with social systems that "patch" them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too much intellectualization here is counterproductive IMHO.  &#8220;Negentropy&#8221; (I had to look that one up!) is only local, a temporary bubble of order in an entropic universe.  We are dumb agents in a &#8220;weather system&#8221; of incentives that ultimately are ruled by entropic principles.  Production expends energy to increase order, and consumption consumes it&#8211;turning products to waste.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s my belief (I have no special knowledge here) that complexity and simplicity have a fractal distribution in the world&#8211;they both exist everywhere you look.   Complexity is contained by larger constraints (technology, the laws of physics, human limitations) which create simplicity that makes the world comprehensible.  This is why it has been my experience that all new theories about human societies inevitably lead you back to what people have been telling their children for thousands of years.  Trudge thru the complexity, and wind up with simplicity again in the end&#8211;yet the simplicity is never completely simple.</p>
<p>The dysfunction in our economic and political system is not hard to understand.  Agents milk the system for their own good at the expense of others.  Hardly a new idea.  I believe that an economic and political system should be thought of as a computation system running a search algorithm to find more efficient methods for supporting human life.  It is a distributed, massively parallel system&#8211;a &#8220;swarm intelligence.&#8221;  We need to know more about the algorithms used by the agents (evolutionary psychology) and what types of systems interact constructively with those agent&#8217;s algorithms.  In other words, which social systems bring out the best in us, and create a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts?  To do this we need to take a hard look at human weaknesses, something our flattering, fawning media is loath to do, and experiment with social systems that &#8220;patch&#8221; them.</p>
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		<title>By: john c. halasz</title>
		<link>http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60#comment-26045</link>
		<dc:creator>john c. halasz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jan 2007 07:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60#comment-26045</guid>
		<description>j :

I just lost a longer reply with a single errant key-stroke. So, shorter version: the analogy with turbulent thermodynamics and complex physical systems vis-a-vis unpredictability is apt. Except that economics concerns the production and distribution of material surpluses, which is negentropic and does not dictate any reversion to low-energy dispersion. Human agents can always defect from structural constraints, though never without "costs", and some of those defections might effect improvements in the production and distribution of surpluses. Human beings further variably can endure losses, i.e. suffer, and moderate and secure gains. Which makes the effort to understand, rather than predict,- since their very agency renders prediction all the more impossible,- the social and natural constraints that they are under worthwhile. Faillible human beings and infaillible markets is, indeed, the very stuff of theology. (Such notions also contradict the very argument for markets as information aggregating and processing mechanisms, which implicate the finite human impossibility of fulling knowing inputs and outcomes). But muddling on through under conditions of distributed uncertainty is still possible. Which is otherwise known as politics, the "conspiracy" of the collective good against itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>j :</p>
<p>I just lost a longer reply with a single errant key-stroke. So, shorter version: the analogy with turbulent thermodynamics and complex physical systems vis-a-vis unpredictability is apt. Except that economics concerns the production and distribution of material surpluses, which is negentropic and does not dictate any reversion to low-energy dispersion. Human agents can always defect from structural constraints, though never without &#8220;costs&#8221;, and some of those defections might effect improvements in the production and distribution of surpluses. Human beings further variably can endure losses, i.e. suffer, and moderate and secure gains. Which makes the effort to understand, rather than predict,- since their very agency renders prediction all the more impossible,- the social and natural constraints that they are under worthwhile. Faillible human beings and infaillible markets is, indeed, the very stuff of theology. (Such notions also contradict the very argument for markets as information aggregating and processing mechanisms, which implicate the finite human impossibility of fulling knowing inputs and outcomes). But muddling on through under conditions of distributed uncertainty is still possible. Which is otherwise known as politics, the &#8220;conspiracy&#8221; of the collective good against itself.</p>
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		<title>By: j</title>
		<link>http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60#comment-24501</link>
		<dc:creator>j</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jan 2007 22:47:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60#comment-24501</guid>
		<description>The analogy we should be thinking of is the weather.  We understand the physics of heat, moisture, etc., but that is no help in deducing the "laws of weather."  Halasz's comment "the consequences of the practices and activities of social agents generate structures that constrain them, structures that , in turn, interact with and become entangled in each other, further feeding back their constaints upon social agents" sounds a lot like fluid dynamics to me, and it suggests that economics is not so much cursed with a "science myth" as with an outdated Newtonian paridigm.  

I understand the author's reluctance to be tagged as a conspiracy theorist, but let's face it--there is a conspiracy of the rich and powerful versus the rest of us.  It is pervasive but subtle.  It is probably useless to rant and rave about it, but if we are not to be complicit in it, we must be honest about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The analogy we should be thinking of is the weather.  We understand the physics of heat, moisture, etc., but that is no help in deducing the &#8220;laws of weather.&#8221;  Halasz&#8217;s comment &#8220;the consequences of the practices and activities of social agents generate structures that constrain them, structures that , in turn, interact with and become entangled in each other, further feeding back their constaints upon social agents&#8221; sounds a lot like fluid dynamics to me, and it suggests that economics is not so much cursed with a &#8220;science myth&#8221; as with an outdated Newtonian paridigm.  </p>
<p>I understand the author&#8217;s reluctance to be tagged as a conspiracy theorist, but let&#8217;s face it&#8211;there is a conspiracy of the rich and powerful versus the rest of us.  It is pervasive but subtle.  It is probably useless to rant and rave about it, but if we are not to be complicit in it, we must be honest about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurent GUERBY</title>
		<link>http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60#comment-23632</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurent GUERBY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jan 2007 17:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60#comment-23632</guid>
		<description>Economists do keep their data from the general public, often out of no good reason (at least by other science standard).

See my article "Inflation and Transparency" for an illustration:

http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2006/11/20/143350/23</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Economists do keep their data from the general public, often out of no good reason (at least by other science standard).</p>
<p>See my article &#8220;Inflation and Transparency&#8221; for an illustration:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2006/11/20/143350/23" rel="nofollow">http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2006/11/20/143350/23</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sven R Larson</title>
		<link>http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60#comment-21845</link>
		<dc:creator>Sven R Larson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 02:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60#comment-21845</guid>
		<description>I fail to see where Tom is leading this point. I agree with his point on "policing" as a phenomenon, but the real problem is not that Republicans and "new Democrats" (whoever they are) keep the gates at our universities. It has been thoroughly proven by Dan Klein (GMU) and others in similar studies that the overwhelming majority of college professors - even in economics - are solidly leftist.

The problem is not political. It is methodological. It is ironic that the radical leftists, once they conquer faculty positions, assume the same old, mostly useless empirical methods of standardized economics. Instead of developing real methods for real problems, they dig themselves into the old marginalist and econometric trenches. While econometrics has its use in limited areas, it is basically useless on real world problems that our legislators are dealing with. An excellent example is the solution to our social security problem: the time horizon is 50-75 years, a time span that is an eon of uncertainty in the econometric context. 

This all goes back to Keynes's principle of uncertainty, which is a far more useful tool in economic analysis than most (though of course not all) quantitative methods. 

Academic gatekeepers do their best to keep people out who do not strictly adhere to the quantitative gospel. There is your gatekeeper/policing problem. Absurdly enough, the emphasis on more or less useless methods also prevents the leftists themselves from actually putting their theory to interesting work.

Tom's points about intellectual policing are important. I just wish he would direct his search light a little more to the left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fail to see where Tom is leading this point. I agree with his point on &#8220;policing&#8221; as a phenomenon, but the real problem is not that Republicans and &#8220;new Democrats&#8221; (whoever they are) keep the gates at our universities. It has been thoroughly proven by Dan Klein (GMU) and others in similar studies that the overwhelming majority of college professors - even in economics - are solidly leftist.</p>
<p>The problem is not political. It is methodological. It is ironic that the radical leftists, once they conquer faculty positions, assume the same old, mostly useless empirical methods of standardized economics. Instead of developing real methods for real problems, they dig themselves into the old marginalist and econometric trenches. While econometrics has its use in limited areas, it is basically useless on real world problems that our legislators are dealing with. An excellent example is the solution to our social security problem: the time horizon is 50-75 years, a time span that is an eon of uncertainty in the econometric context. </p>
<p>This all goes back to Keynes&#8217;s principle of uncertainty, which is a far more useful tool in economic analysis than most (though of course not all) quantitative methods. </p>
<p>Academic gatekeepers do their best to keep people out who do not strictly adhere to the quantitative gospel. There is your gatekeeper/policing problem. Absurdly enough, the emphasis on more or less useless methods also prevents the leftists themselves from actually putting their theory to interesting work.</p>
<p>Tom&#8217;s points about intellectual policing are important. I just wish he would direct his search light a little more to the left.</p>
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		<title>By: blaze</title>
		<link>http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60#comment-21451</link>
		<dc:creator>blaze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Dec 2006 11:45:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60#comment-21451</guid>
		<description>I think itâ€™s more important that â€˜professionalsâ€™ are forced to engage, explain, and defend their ideas with the â€˜unprofessionalsâ€™, rather than the untrained actually initiating the dialogue.

The fact is, professionals, even though they are the annoying gatekeepers, do deserve that role and by having it help keep the pool of knowledge clean from intellectual confusion.

But they shouldnâ€™t be immune to enquiry, and they should be forced to teach and defend in order to maintain their position at the gates. They should be constantly arming the unlearned so that when they are weak and weary they have to step down and can be properly replaced.

If they canâ€™t or won't do that, then they probably donâ€™t deserve to be the gatekeepers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think itâ€™s more important that â€˜professionalsâ€™ are forced to engage, explain, and defend their ideas with the â€˜unprofessionalsâ€™, rather than the untrained actually initiating the dialogue.</p>
<p>The fact is, professionals, even though they are the annoying gatekeepers, do deserve that role and by having it help keep the pool of knowledge clean from intellectual confusion.</p>
<p>But they shouldnâ€™t be immune to enquiry, and they should be forced to teach and defend in order to maintain their position at the gates. They should be constantly arming the unlearned so that when they are weak and weary they have to step down and can be properly replaced.</p>
<p>If they canâ€™t or won&#8217;t do that, then they probably donâ€™t deserve to be the gatekeepers.</p>
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		<title>By: blaze</title>
		<link>http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60#comment-21450</link>
		<dc:creator>blaze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Dec 2006 11:42:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60#comment-21450</guid>
		<description>I think it's more important that 'professionals' are forced to engage, explain, and defend their ideas with the 'unprofessionals', rather than the the untrained actually iniating the dialogue.    

The fact is, professionals, even though they are the annoying gatekeepers, do deserve that role and help keep the pool of knowledge clean from intellectual confusion.

But they shouldn't be immune, and they should be forced to teach and defend in order to maintain their position at the gatekeeper.   They should be arming their foes so that when they are weak and weary they have to step down.

 If they can't do that, then they probably don't deserve to be there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s more important that &#8216;professionals&#8217; are forced to engage, explain, and defend their ideas with the &#8216;unprofessionals&#8217;, rather than the the untrained actually iniating the dialogue.    </p>
<p>The fact is, professionals, even though they are the annoying gatekeepers, do deserve that role and help keep the pool of knowledge clean from intellectual confusion.</p>
<p>But they shouldn&#8217;t be immune, and they should be forced to teach and defend in order to maintain their position at the gatekeeper.   They should be arming their foes so that when they are weak and weary they have to step down.</p>
<p> If they can&#8217;t do that, then they probably don&#8217;t deserve to be there.</p>
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		<title>By: Ranney Ramsey</title>
		<link>http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60#comment-21340</link>
		<dc:creator>Ranney Ramsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Dec 2006 18:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60#comment-21340</guid>
		<description>Palley's article and the Halasz comment  address issues of "objectivity" and [at least by implication] "rationality" that are often only peripheral rather than the central focus of discussion.  

I continue to advocate greater attention to the work of Stephen Toulmin in this respect.  His work, Human Understanding [1972], stated with eloquence and nuance the case for considering both the "discplinary" and "professional" problems that scientists - and specifically natural scientists - confront. He stated the issues in terms that are very similar to those used by Thomas Palley.   Not long ago, in Return to Reason, Toulmin elaborated his thought for the social sciences including economics.  His portrayal of the classic "epistemic portrait" shares a kindred spirit with John Halasz' comments about the hazy boundary line between the "detached observer" and an "economic system" which is at least partially created by that same "observer" as a "participant".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Palley&#8217;s article and the Halasz comment  address issues of &#8220;objectivity&#8221; and [at least by implication] &#8220;rationality&#8221; that are often only peripheral rather than the central focus of discussion.  </p>
<p>I continue to advocate greater attention to the work of Stephen Toulmin in this respect.  His work, Human Understanding [1972], stated with eloquence and nuance the case for considering both the &#8220;discplinary&#8221; and &#8220;professional&#8221; problems that scientists - and specifically natural scientists - confront. He stated the issues in terms that are very similar to those used by Thomas Palley.   Not long ago, in Return to Reason, Toulmin elaborated his thought for the social sciences including economics.  His portrayal of the classic &#8220;epistemic portrait&#8221; shares a kindred spirit with John Halasz&#8217; comments about the hazy boundary line between the &#8220;detached observer&#8221; and an &#8220;economic system&#8221; which is at least partially created by that same &#8220;observer&#8221; as a &#8220;participant&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: john c. halasz</title>
		<link>http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60#comment-20875</link>
		<dc:creator>john c. halasz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Dec 2006 04:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=60#comment-20875</guid>
		<description>I spent some time on this issue of the philosophy of economics and its epistemic status over at Mark Thoma's blog a few weeks ago. One of the most basic points is that it is important to understand the difference in the degree and kinds of objectivity that can be claimed for natural-scientific theories and social theories. Not only do social theories refer to an historical reality that is far less invariant and thus far less susceptible to general and immutable lawfulness, but social theories are needed precisely insofar as the consequences of the practices and activities of social agents generate structures that constrain them, structures that , in turn, interact with and become entangled in each other, further feeding back their constaints upon social agents beyond the horizon of their ordinary understanding and experience. Hence, not only does economic theory, as a kind of social theory, originate from social practices and activities of a certain kind or aspect, but it relates reflexively to those domains of social action and ultimately serves to inform and alter them. Two main points follow from this: 1) that it is impossible to cleanly separate out normative from "positive" considerations in economic theory, to the same degree that is possible in natural science; and 2) that, though there is a really effective quasi-systematic implicature that constitutes the "object domain" of economic theory, that theory is a part of that implicature and can not entirely step out of it to view it as a whole, but rather always occupies a perpsective within it. This is not to say that there is not a kind of objectivity that economic theory concerns itself with, nor that there are not differences between degrees of objectivity. The further implication then is that the conditions of application of economic models and methods always need to be considered in assessing their usefulness or validity and that no total systematization of  an economic theory is possible, for, if it were, it would by the same token, be inapplicable. Finally,  whatever the empirical assessment or measurement of the current state of an economic system may be, itself a dubious or uncertain matter, there would be several functionally equivalent alternate states of the system that would be prospectively possible, such that any policy proposal for intervention or nonintervention in the workings of that economic system would bear ethico-political as well as epistemic criteria, even as it seeks to reflexively inform such considerations.

The upshot is that economic theory does not have the sort of "hard" objectivity that is often attributed to it and, further,  that it usually deploys a narrow and rather fantstical conception of social agency, tailored to its own narrow preoccupations,  that lends to its claims an overly assertoric air, as if it were entirely "justified" in its "positive" claims, that obfuscates the normative import of its implications. A good example would be a recent article by Edward Prescott of RBC fame, noted by Thoma among others, that displays such tendencies in all their absurdity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spent some time on this issue of the philosophy of economics and its epistemic status over at Mark Thoma&#8217;s blog a few weeks ago. One of the most basic points is that it is important to understand the difference in the degree and kinds of objectivity that can be claimed for natural-scientific theories and social theories. Not only do social theories refer to an historical reality that is far less invariant and thus far less susceptible to general and immutable lawfulness, but social theories are needed precisely insofar as the consequences of the practices and activities of social agents generate structures that constrain them, structures that , in turn, interact with and become entangled in each other, further feeding back their constaints upon social agents beyond the horizon of their ordinary understanding and experience. Hence, not only does economic theory, as a kind of social theory, originate from social practices and activities of a certain kind or aspect, but it relates reflexively to those domains of social action and ultimately serves to inform and alter them. Two main points follow from this: 1) that it is impossible to cleanly separate out normative from &#8220;positive&#8221; considerations in economic theory, to the same degree that is possible in natural science; and 2) that, though there is a really effective quasi-systematic implicature that constitutes the &#8220;object domain&#8221; of economic theory, that theory is a part of that implicature and can not entirely step out of it to view it as a whole, but rather always occupies a perpsective within it. This is not to say that there is not a kind of objectivity that economic theory concerns itself with, nor that there are not differences between degrees of objectivity. The further implication then is that the conditions of application of economic models and methods always need to be considered in assessing their usefulness or validity and that no total systematization of  an economic theory is possible, for, if it were, it would by the same token, be inapplicable. Finally,  whatever the empirical assessment or measurement of the current state of an economic system may be, itself a dubious or uncertain matter, there would be several functionally equivalent alternate states of the system that would be prospectively possible, such that any policy proposal for intervention or nonintervention in the workings of that economic system would bear ethico-political as well as epistemic criteria, even as it seeks to reflexively inform such considerations.</p>
<p>The upshot is that economic theory does not have the sort of &#8220;hard&#8221; objectivity that is often attributed to it and, further,  that it usually deploys a narrow and rather fantstical conception of social agency, tailored to its own narrow preoccupations,  that lends to its claims an overly assertoric air, as if it were entirely &#8220;justified&#8221; in its &#8220;positive&#8221; claims, that obfuscates the normative import of its implications. A good example would be a recent article by Edward Prescott of RBC fame, noted by Thoma among others, that displays such tendencies in all their absurdity.</p>
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